Rank Change Suggestions -- Please leave feedback.

[Traaavis]

These are some thoughts I have about how we can slightly modify the ranks so they’re more up to date with EoC/Keybag and skill. Basically it promotes DIP for rank upgrades, but doesn’t require strenuous trials for everyone. Just some ideas, but I want to hear what all the admins have to say about it...maybe use it as a starting template for possible changes in the near future?

LEVEL RANKS

1-Stripe

• All new recruits no matter what level
  
• In order to get the level rank they deserve, they need to do DIP to demonstrate they have a basic understanding of what’s going on. Even though these are level-based ranks, it would be nice to know everyone is at least at the same basic ability level.
  
• Anyone <113 DG
  

To get to the next rank:

• Must have 113-119 DG (I feel like 113 and 120 are milestones people seek out, so the middle-of-the-road rank should reflect those in between the two milestones)
  
• Must have proper binds (there is no perfect setup, but as long as they follow the bind guide recommendations and don’t have stupid binds like precision bracelets or chainbodies that’s fine)
  
• Must do a few DIP floors with any mentor (hopefully the one assigned to you, though) to demonstrate that you either improved from before, or are skilled enough to know the basic flow of DG
  
• (It shouldn’t be hard to get to the next rank; I’m thinking 90% level based, 5% DIP requirement, 5% improvement/positive attitude in a floor -- nothing that can’t be fixed after a couple DIP floors and a little practice)
  

2-Stripe

• Anyone 113-119 DG who has passed the DIP “trial” (more like assessment)
  

To get to the next rank:

• Must have 120 DG
  
• Must do another series of DIP floors with a mentor to show improvement and slightly more challenging DG ability (basically I would look for making sure these people take a little initiative in a floor...they don’t have to lead it or carry people through it, but they should call when to MGT at the appropriate times, know basic gating, etc.)
  
• (Again, this rank shouldn’t be hard to get. 90% level based, 5% DIP requirement, 5% improvement/skill/attitude)
  

3-Stripe

• Anyone 120 DG
  

To get to the next rank (next rank is a shared rank between 200m and pre-keyer):

• Must have 200m DG exp
  
• Must do one last series of DIP floors for level-based ranks (same rigor as before -- because these aren’t keying ranks, they don’t have to be perfect, but they have to have some sense of what’s going on. By the time people are 200m dg they really shouldn’t be completely clueless in a floor, and doing a few DIP floors should be able to fix that very quickly. Also the next rank is shared with a pre-keyer rank, so these people should be at the same skill level.)
  

SKILL RANKS


Bronze Star - Skill Mastery and Pre-Keyer (needs a new name)

• Anyone with 200m DG exp
  
• Anyone who is attempting to trial for the Keyer rank, but isn’t quite there yet
  
• This rank is given by DIP mentors to people who demonstrate enough proficiency in keying OR carrying, but not BOTH required for the Keyer rank
  
• Kind of like a stepping stone to Keyer for people who actively participate in DIP
  

Silver Star (Keyer) - Proficiency in Basic Keying and Carrying

• No level requirement
  
• 5x screenshots of Occ/Warp Sub-11 13%
  
• Must apply on forums
  
• May trial without any previous DIP floors, but if they fail on that first try, they must reach Bronze rank before they can re-trial (to encourage DIP floors with the clan)
  
• Trial should include a couple floors where the applicant Keys and Carries to demonstrate knowledge of both aspects
  

Gold Star (Maven) - No change to the current rank except they are “Certified” DIP Mentors

• No level requirement
  
• 5x screenshot of Occ/Warp Sub-10 13%
  
• Must gain Keyer rank before trialing for Maven
  
• Must apply on the forums and be approved by DIP mentors to trial
  
• Ideally people who are aiming for Maven rank should be doing some DIP floors occasionally between hosting/joining floors so they are aware of what they can work on. DIP mentors will guide them in the right direction until they’re ready for a Maven trial.
  Upon passing the trial, Mavens are now DIP Mentors (should this be required, but based on how active people are? some people are clearly mavens but don’t play very much so it wouldn’t be fair to make them DIP mentors for people...idk)
  

Side notes:

I think people should be forced to climb the ranks linearly. No skipping from 1-stripe to Maven. Make ranks worth the time and investment, and make DIP participation a driving force for improvement.

We're going to retrial all the Silver ranks so it's updated. Trials will be more strict, and all current Silver ranks can be put as Bronze until they choose to retrial for Silver. Additionally, because DIP is now required to advance in ranks, do you guys think the DIP mentor + Trialer should be in agreement about the rank upgrade? This would sort of act as a self-check system amongst staff to make sure we're on the same page about everyone and to make sure ranks are given out appropriately. Maybe have the Mentor have to approve/recommend the trial before it happens, and have someone who isn't the mentor give the trial? Idk what you do all think?

[Snipercover]

Agreed. We fixed most things on IRC.

To re-trial the Silver starts I suggest Coord+
Think we can trust them on their decisions.

[Rein is Baas]

Rank reqs look great!

Re-trialing the silver stars looks like a very good thing to do.
I want to add, trav ur #1!

[Farotto]

We need to work on it a bit and make sure Maria approves.

Also I don't agree with what you are saying about rankups , must someone be 120 dg before they go for carrier or keyer?

[Farotto]

I'm not convinced we need to change the rank system drastically and because "keybag/eoc" is irrelevant to this.

Also there is a reason people sign up for dip we do not want to force people to participate in it for rank ups if they do not want this


If the dip must be promoted we should go about this a different way I think.

200m needs to stay silver that's how its always been in 3bo.

[Rein is Baas]

You can still reach bronze star rank without 120 dung. You just can't go from 1 stripe to maven/keyer without passing any other rank

For maven I think it's a good idea that you need to reach a lower rank first.

[suguru]

Dec 14, 2012 22:13:32 GMT -5 Farotto said:

I'm not convinced we need to change the rank system drastically and because "keybag/eoc" is irrelevant to this.

Also there is a reason people sign up for dip we do not want to force people to participate in it for rank ups if they do not want this


If the dip must be promoted we should go about this a different way I think.

200m needs to stay silver that's how its always been in 3bo.

but most of the targeted population, dgers in this era, will have difficulty learning/mastering these things without facilitation. So forcing the educational environment would prompt positive growth, not much doubt of that.

but most of the targeted population, dgers in this era, will have difficulty learning/mastering these things without facilitation. So forcing the educational environment would prompt positive growth, not much doubt of that.

[TiaMariaa]

I agree on this,I just want all ranks to come with input so we got everyone included in the changes.

[Farotto]

I think we should come up with a different way to get people more involved in dip instead of making them do it for rank updates.

The dip style is not for everyone and I know people may feel uncomfortable with someone following them in Dg or asking them about every decision/critiquing what they do.

( Some people are already turned away from 3bo when we ask to trial for invite )

[defy]

I think we need to be pickier on who we let in. If someone is to lazy to get on forums and do a simple application I don't think they should have the privilege of being in the clan. I think 3bo should focus on improvement, and get people who want to improve, and actually enjoy the skill. You can tell if someone is actually willing to improve, or even enjoys the skill of dung. I think we should find a way to be able to weed out the people who are just here trying to get a comp cape, just want chaotics, or just is sick of world 114.

When we allow these people in, it makes 3bo a lesser community. Actual people who enjoy the skill might stray away from the clan because of the vibe they're getting with some of the members who you can tell aren't dunging for enjoyment.

One idea would be a week long trial. This would give admins a week to dung with new recruits. This would need admins dunging with recruits more, and should bring overall activity to the clan. After the week is up the recruit would be able to do another application. This could be moved to a hidden forum where admins could post their opinion on if the recruit should be allowed or declined into the clan.

This will ultimately slow down recruitment at first, but that necessarily wouldn't be a bad thing. To me, we are a relatively tight knit community. With a slow influx of members we can build a bigger base of quality members. Once the word gets out on our standards, I feel like more people will be willing to join.


However, I do agree with Otto that DIP isn't for everyone, but I think people should try it, but that's up to admins. If we start advertising DIP floors people will be more intrigued and will want to try it out. DIP is basically stagnant right now, and that's on admins.

[Traaavis]

Personally I think if people are turned off from having to spend 10 minutes to join a welcome trial, then they don't care enough about 3bo to take it seriously. It's not like the trial is strenuous, and if people think it's asking too much of them, they can go join DGM/Chilled DG.

On the topic of DIP, maybe we can try different approaches based on how the people respond. Instead of following them critiquing everything we could tell them specifically what we're doing and why, and if they have questions speak up. Then when we shadow them, make sure they're not guessing what they should do to impress us; make sure they're choosing which way to go on their own or something like that.

I think DIP can be extremely useful, but we need to be aware of how people in the clan WANT to learn as well. No point in forcing one style of DIP if they're not going to benefit, but I believe we need to facilitate some sort of teaching floors presented in a way they will accept and learn from best.

defy's comment:

I think we can benefit from recruiting more serious DGers, but we also shouldn't reject people who are less serious. We need to find the medium between the two, or at least require some effort put into applications. Even if we're going to accept people no matter what, we can make it look like we're being more strict on applications to make it look more serious to attract the more serious DGers.

[defy]

By no means am I saying decline someone because of they are not good at dung. So hopefully that's not how I portrayed it.

A good example would be Giant Spider. When he joined he was absolutely terrible, but he asked for feedback did a few DIP floors and has improved tons. You can tell that he enjoys dunging and wants to get better. This is what we need in the clan.

[TiaMariaa]

^ yes that's the main goal,improvement.

[suguru]

but I have had a habit of letting people in that I personally wasn't too fond of. I did the trial, and they didn't do anything heinous but personality wise they didn't seem to enjoy dg or they were obnoxious. However, as far as trial criteria goes, it constituted an invite. The only problem with being picky is that the shift from a fairly open dg community/clan to a targeted audience(eager to learn) would also make the focus of the clan change fairly drastically. Alot of the current members may not fit the profile, and it could cause some tension in the clan. if you want to make learning the foundation of this clan, then the rank system needs to be changed. You can do it differently, and have a better atmosphere than dgs if you focus on the goal. I think making cam an admin was a great decision since we really do need other input. we lack strong, well thought out opinions on these admin forums. I'm partially responsible since I've got alot going on and I've really lost alot of my motivation as far as improvement since we've been stagnant for so long without any real change or progress. more or less because the decisions can't be made unless the general consensus is positive. We have ideas, we have time and effort we want to put into it, but what are we really doing? let's focus on a long term goal, what we're working towards. Then we'll figure out how we'll get there. Fixing a broken system, or one that we want to adapt to the current game will require us to make some visible permanent changes. But everyone seems to be reluctant to accept that, since the little things we do change haven't had any long term effect aside from the handful of people who did learn things from dip and improved significantly enough to say that it was a success. we just haven't had a large enough sample size, or an endgame. I have no problem helping people who want to improve, I spend time with people who want to find out what they're doing wrong and how to make themselves improve overall. These people often spend time on their own, not expecting me to cup their balls in order for them to get better. I'm more of a resource, since I've just had a fair bit of experience dging and I'm also always trying to figure out how to improve myself. If we want to make that the premise of our clan, I have no qualms. But that decision is up to you guys, and I really don't think that we're willing to make a change like that since things are working "fine" the way they are. we also don't know if the outcome will be optimal.

[Farotto]

Not everyone wants to improve though , there needs to be some motivation behind it.

As said some may want 120 dungeoneering for chaotics /comp cape / total levels.

I think the best solution to this would be only accepting people that apply here and trial for invite.

Easy way to "weed" out the less serious or active dgers and I believe our member base is built up enough to do this.

This would already promote the dip floors and improvement (as well as forums community) without us having to add it into rank ups and forcing people to do these floors.

I don't want the base of 3bo to be a teaching clan though we offer it and every opportunity to improve. To avoid becoming like DGS and remaining a clan with a more relaxed environment but stricter means to get in.

Historically our simple focus is a clan to find teams/people to dg with for 120dg or 200m exp goals. (850b dg exp coming from the cc) , though adding in the teaching/improving aspect is necessary it does not need to be the basis of the entire clan.


Basically if the right people join the clan we don't need to force dip or improvement on people because they will already want to. Making all apply and trial should do this and build up an even higher quality member base while still accepting people who may not actively seek improving in dg but want levels. ( the best way still to improve is to simply dg and gain experience anyway )

also consider making a new application form.